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Revision of Which of the two possible addons (TourGuide or Jahwo's custom addon) do you prefer? from Thu, 2009-01-08 00:49

Jiyambi's picture

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Jame's picture

Don't worry about it

Don't worry about it anymore. We'll be supporting both addon formats Smiling

Check news post regarding this: Here.

Tag's picture

Something in between?

In reality I don't think it matters which one is opted for (whether its one or both) as long as they have the necessary features to make leveling a painless experience and don't have too many major irritations. TourGuide is an excellent addon and Jahwo's looks like it will be when its completed. Haven't managed to test Jahwos properly due to time but I'll look closer over the weekened.

One thing I would say is lack of tomtom support is a massive negative in my opinion. TourGuide maps its co-ords using tomtom and we all know how cool and addon tomtom is. I can drag my little arrow to wherever i want it, I can get rid of the arro if i just want the pointer on my minimap and not on my screen. I just don't see why you would choose to make work for yourself; Tomtom exists and its great. So use it and then put the time you save into the mroe important aspects of the wowpro addon? Obviously feeding waypoints into Tomtom may be more difficult than I've implied but it must be easier than creating your own addon to do the same thing.

I bet I'll check development on the wowpro addon now and all of this stuff is already in and I'll look like a moron.

If I could pick my perfect addon then I'd like some middle ground to be honest. I really like the way the Zygor in-game guide works. It tells you your objectives ("Kill vultures!") and has plenty of room for notes about this quest or whatever (unfortunately the guides are rubbish) and it also maps waypoints for pretty much every single step using Tomtom. TourGuide has great features but its tiny and there isn't much room for notes. Having the step description and then a few lines for notes below would help it a bit, sometimes its not needed ("Kill Vultures!" is pretty easy to follow after all) but Jame's guides are full of useful bits of info and it would be nice to take that element to the in-game guides as well. The fact that the Wowpro add-on has been created from the ground up for wowpro guides means that content-wise it is perfect for displaying plenty of info making it ideal for Jame's (and other!) wowpro guides but it may lack features compared to say the TourGuide addon (I don't know, I haven't tested it yet!). SO I don't know, a guide that is being written specifically for this sites guides is kind of ideal because it can be tailored completely but this option would only be ideal as long as it had a similar feature list to other similar addons.

I'd say doctor TourGuide to make it more suitable for Wowpro guides but I know from my own experience how irritating it can be working your way through someones else code. But if it was possible tweaking TourGuide would work nicely... maybe...

tag. Smiling

Jame's picture

Don't worry about it

Don't worry about it anymore. We'll be supporting both addon formats Smiling

Check news post regarding this: Here.

re:

Jahwo has put out a temp fix for tomtom inclusion on the comments on the thread and I figure it will be included in his next update Smiling

Tag's picture

I sound like a fool, its

I sound like a fool, its quite obvious I don't know what i want!

Jame's picture

Alright, the people have

Alright, the people have spoken. We'll be keeping both addon formats.

With the amazing community we have, I'm sure we'll easily keep both addons updated Eye

Elmo23's picture

Standardised version for guides

Hmm
I have been checking the tourguide addon yesterday, and tonight i will check the wow-pro version.
Tourguide is pretty hadable, but missing some nice features ( like images ) that wow-pro addon seems to have. This helps greatly in converting jamie's awesome guides.

Now, i have also been pondering on another tought.
I have been a webdevver for quite a while, and was thinking it would be very awesome to get a standardising going on, including a web based interface to create guides AND lua files.
This might even export it to different guide types.
Since we only have a few different quest types, it should not be hard to format it to a sort of xml like process and export directly, eliminating typo's.
For example, i could create a web interface that lets you select what you wish to do :
Accept quest a
accept quest b
kill for a
loot for b
get quest c
loot for c
turn in b
turn in a
Every quest can get parameters like : coords. items needed targets to kill or loot, notes and images and so on.
This could all be in human readable format.
The quest / item / NPC names, locations, links and ID's could be gathers using wowhead and also used in the database
Then it could be exported to any addon you program the logic for and even right back into the website.
( aka, publish as : website text ( for jamie to post ) wow-pro for our addon, tourguide for those that use that.
It could easally be expanded into using other mods and addons, since they all have to follow similar coding guidelines.
Also, when the addon gets modified, all guides can easally be adapted and exported anew. ( new tags, like a new color for verndors, no problem, change vendor color and all will work with the new color )

I would be more then happy to give this a go to start setting up.

Also, i would then like to check the below quest types.

Quest types :

Talk to NPC xxx
Talk to NPC xxx Listen to complete storyline
Go to Location
Gather object x ( wood from ground )
Gather multiple objecs ( wood from ground )
Loot items from targets ( kill boars for meat )
Kill xx target types ( defenders )
Kill xx targets ( defenders of wrath ) OR xx Targets ( Defernder wolves ) for yy total targets ( defenders of )
Kill xx targets ( sickend wolves ) AND xx targets ( sickened bears ) AND xx Targets ( sickend deers ) for quest yy ( sickened anymals )
Kill Target yy ( bossman )

Kill Target a and use item x on it
Kill Target a type and use item on it.
Kill Target a type and use item on it. With multiple types for x quest.

Targets can have specific coords, or a regio, with a region one could realy use jamies map images. AND/OR have a coords group/route
( aka, set a series of waypoints where starter waypoint is also the end waypoint and you loop it till quest is complete )
( This would also help the gathering guides greatly )
( This would also help quest objectives in guide as : keep running laps in this area till you killed all mobs needed for quests xx and yy and zz )

A nice function would also be, with quest mob killing stuff, that the killing ( especially with different options available ) would all be auto completed when the wow tracker reports a quest complete message. This would make it easier to add kill commands, and they will all vansih when hit appropriate.
( quest kill xx of target a OR xx of target b , a total of 12. so if you just kill 12 targets a, it will complete as much as 12 target b or a mix thereof.)

I am shure i have missed some quest types, or am istaken with some, please do add.

Jame's picture

Sounds like a great idea.

Sounds like a great idea. I'd up to give it a try and we could host it on wow-pro.

PM me if you need any help with that.

Jiyambi's picture

So basically it would be a

So basically it would be a user-friendly interface for making guides for either addon? I think this is a great idea! It sounds like it could be a lot of work though.

Elmo23's picture

Yup, indeed a user friendly editor.

I have just ran trough a part of jamies level guide and seen iof i could pour it in easally.
Yeah, it is certainly doable.
Tough i am now trying to find out how to make it actually work for several addons.
Since several addons have some very different key features.
Biggest problem i see so far ( the real challenge )
Multi Quest complete actions with variables.
Like :
Kill 23 vulture, loot 10 of theyr meats and quest xx is ready.
OR kill that OR that type of mob untill you killed 10 in total. And it does not matter wich mob you kill.
Also, i this all quests addons should use the quest ID.
That would simplify life a LOT

Can't speak for any of the

Can't speak for any of the others but in the wow-pro addon when you are coding it you could set your auto complete argument to the last in the string or as with the multiple mobs that could complete the quest to when the quest completes.

I prefer Jahwo's addon

Jahwo's addon seems to be more user-friendly, and I like the distance meter feature. One thing I'd recommend is that it be made an option to put multiple steps into the screen. For example I'd like it to look something like this:
1. Go to 63,69 and kill all the wolves there. Once done turn it in at 20,41 and get the quest [Dune].
2. Go do [Dune] at 42,28. Once done turn it in at 20,41 and get the quest [Aliens Exist].

It'd be nice if you could see all the steps for the selected zone in one screen.

Vildecor's picture

Interesting. So far it's a

Interesting. So far it's a pretty close vote. I personally think if we abandon one in favor of the other it might be a mistake. It really comes down to personal preference with many people, and I don't see the problem with having options. With as many volunteers in the first few days to help with writing guides, I don't think there will be an issue with getting help updating either Addon in the future.

I know Jahwo made a comment that supporting both addons might cause confusion by giving two different standards. In my eyes, there is one standard: the guides themselves. Just as there doesn't seem to be much confusion in posting more than one guide for how to level from X-X, I don't think having both addons supported will be much different.

I vote for keep both up and running and let the end user decide which he/she prefers to use. I don't think we should abandon either unless support for it dies.

I couldn't have said it any

I couldn't have said it any better and I totally agree with you. Smiling

Although I've voted for the WoW-Pro add-on, I think it would be a shame to abandon either the WoW-Pro add-on or the TourGuide add-on (depending on how this 'competition' ends) considering the hard work both authors have put in it. And seeing it's a very close vote at the moment, there will be quite a few users that maybe won't use the new add-on at all, because they favour the other one. That would be a waste I think, so why not develop both add-ons and let the player decide which one to use? Smiling

Kind Regards,

Yokaij

Jiyambi's picture

Especially considering so

Especially considering so much work has gone into both!

Jiyambi's picture

Yeah, I wish I had added

Yeah, I wish I had added that option to the poll. *sigh*

I like that TourGuide takes

I like that TourGuide takes up such a tiny amount of screen space.

I like that TourGuide has more guides integrated right away.

I like that--although I haven't looked for myself--people say it's easier to put guide into TourGuide.

However, I voted for Jawho's addon because I like the way Jawho's addon displays the GUIDE, not the steps. You can hover over TG to get very minimal notes, and they do usually suffice, but not always. I was leveling an alt in Hellfire to test it out, and I can't remember which quest, but it told me to "go northeast then south" while killing. o.O What? Where? How long? Too minimal. And many people who use these guides--love you all--kind of freak out if they're left to interpret these things on their own.

I feel Jawho's addon will be better than TG with two things:
-A minimize option, so it takes less screen space. We don't really need all those chunky borders. I struggled to find an out-of-the-way place to put the thing. Smiling Also, a lot of people DO use TomTom or Cartographer waypoints, so I don't know that the Horde/Alliance logos with the arrow is all that needed either.
-Time. I tried my hand at doing a guide, and it made my eyes cross, so when I got a PM that someone else had accidentally started on the guide I "called," I was glad to give it up. I will work on some smaller guides (like the low-level stuff) time allowing. But with time to get more guides integrated, it'll be great.

That said, all the work that everyone is doing on these two addons is fantastic, and though I do LIKE one better than the other, I would happily use either. It's awesome of you folks to do this. Smiling Thank you, sincerely.

Jame's picture

Well, the lack of

Well, the lack of information in certain steps of the hellfire guide is not because of the addon, it's because of the choices of the person who coded my guide in the addon.

Black Cat did a great job, but he did it all alone so of course it's not perfect. All we'd have to do is add clarifications in the notes where it's needed, until the addon reaches perfection.

Deea's picture

How about something else?

I have voted with 'No preference' simply because I think we don't have to "choose" one of the guides. Bot authors did an amazing job and the guides both work perfectly well. Why can't you two just team up and make a super-ultra addon that can have all the features of the two?

I'm not trying to pressure you, I'm not sure if you would agree, I'm not sure if it's practical (coming from a noob addon-developer), but I think it would be the best solution. Deleting one of the addons in favor of another would be a waste, considering all the work put into it. And since both addons are so great, one that would combine all the features can only be better.

So how about we don't turn this into "My addon is better than yours" competition, but instead work together. Jame's guides are amazing, we all want to see them in an addon, does it really matter whose name is under the "Author" section?
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Shikamaru's picture

It is very hard to let two

It is very hard to let two people work together that don't know each other in any possible way.

1) They are coding differently.

2) If someone adds/removes something and the other one doesn't like it that way, you'll have another problem.

3) They are coding differently.

4) They are coding differently.

I agree with you ''My addon is better than yours'' theory, but it is very hard to adapt this. Someone would have to let loose of his addon and start working on the other one's. I wouldn't do it if I had been coding for 48-72 hours, to be honest.

But, that's in my point of view. More additions to this post, please.

Jahwo's picture

the problem is: I am writing

the problem is:
I am writing an addon,
blackcat is writing guides for an addon
Smiling

Shikamaru's picture

So, it isn't his own addon?

So, it isn't his own addon?

Jame's picture

No, it's Tekkub's addon, but

No, it's Tekkub's addon, but it's not licensed.

Anyway, you can read more about it here: http://www.wow-pro.com/leveling_guides/jame039s_levelling_guide_tourguide_style#comment-18889

Jahwo's Custom

I'd definitely choose Jahwo's WoW-Pro add-on. It displays Jame's notes (which are highly valuable Eye) much better than TourGuide. Also, it's possible to add almost every kind of guide that's on WoW-Pro to the add-on, not just the levelling guides.
At the moment I'm trying to add Bostons Alliance 1-12 Dun Morogh guide to both the TourGuide and the WoW-Pro add-on, and I must say that you can maintain the lay-out that the original guide has much better by adding it to the WoW-Pro add-on than to the TourGuide add-on, as the WoW-Pro add-on allows you to use the same colour codes Jame uses in his guides. Which is another advantage. Overall, I find creating a guide much easier using the WoW-Pro add-on than using the TourGuide add-on.

So here's my vote for the WoW-Pro add-on. Smiling

Kind Regards,

Yokaij

Puli's picture

I think you make a good

I think you make a good point about non-leveling guides being able to be added to the WoW-Pro addon. I think that could be a real plus, putting the professions leveling guides on there.

Jahwo's picture

I don't see why it shouldn't

I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to add non-leveling gudies to tourguide.

Jame's picture

Most importantly, I don't

Most importantly, I don't really see the use of putting non-leveling guides in an addon format. Leveling guides are quite unique because you have to read every step as you progress, requiring a lot of alt tabbing.

For most other guides this is not the case, you read them as a whole and keep the information in your head, and then you can check back on it whenever you forget something. But having it as an in-game addon just seems like a big overkill to me. A simple alt-tab to read a section you forgot is more than enough.

Let's also not forget that it's a pleasure to read a nice guide with a neat layout, like for example Jiyambi's Tree Healing Guide. I'd pick that ten times over an addon version.

Jame's picture

The TourGuide version also

The TourGuide version also displays my notes. You just have to hover over the step with your mouse pointer.

It's true however that Jahwo's Addon allows to stay closer to the original layout of my guides. That's one of its advantages.

vote

had to vote no preference simply for the fact that there is no alliance guides on either so not able to test them out. Sad

Agree, no alliance guides

Agree, no alliance guides makes it hard to tell

Jame's picture

And if you're undecided, I

And if you're undecided, I suggest you try them a little!

TourGuide version
Jahwo's Version

Jahwo's picture

I voted against me.. that

I voted against me.. that was not intelligent, was it? Laughing out loud

Jiyambi's picture

Ugh, Jame, the poll graphics

Ugh, Jame, the poll graphics are all wonky for me. I'm using Firefox 3.0.5, what's happening is that the colored bar showing the amount of votes gets pushed down below my avatar, but the gray bars showing the things being voted on are not. So the colored bar is all off sync with the rest of them, making it fairly unreadable.

Jiyambi's picture

Yup they are "un-wonky" for

Yup they are "un-wonky" for me now Eye

Jame's picture

Seems like they "un-wonkied"

Seems like they "un-wonkied" themselves!

Jame's picture

Man, yet another annoying

Man, yet another annoying coding glitch. I'll try to get it fixed in the coming days.

Meanwhile we can still see the results as numbers and percentages. Only the "bar" display doesn't work.