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Revision of Revized WoW-Pro Addon from Thu, 2010-02-25 21:40

Jiyambi's picture

As many of you are aware of by now, Tour Guide has been purchased by Zygor for use with his pay-for-use leveling guides. It is expected that we will be asked to take down our addon, as it uses Tour Guide code as a base. Users are welcome to continue using any versions of our guide addon currently on their PCs, but we will most likely no longer be able to distribute the addon.

For more background on the situation, see Tekkub's (Tour Guide's author) blog:

More on what this means for us after the break.

What this means for our addon: Don't worry, it's not the end of the world! With Cataclysm and a huge revision of all the guides on the horizon anyway, this is the best time for this to have happened. WoW-Pro will be coding it's very own addon, possibly using the old addon Jahwo was working on as a base.

What we need from the community: First of all, patience. We will do our best to come out with an up to date, new addon quickly, but it will take time.

Secondly, we need input! Please post here with suggestions for features you'd like to see in the new addon.

Thirdly, we need help! We have a couple experienced coders in the moderator group here at WoW-Pro, but many of us are busy with RL activities and may not have a lot of time to devote to so huge a project. If you are experienced with addon writing, let us know and we'll see if we can put you to work!

Core feature list:

  • Check-able list of steps with the ability to access more detailed descriptions for each step.
  • Arrow pointing the way to coordinates associated with each step, and/or interaction with other arrow addons such as TomTom, Cartographer, and Carbonite.
  • Ability to read Tour Guide format guide files.
  • For now, ability to pull NPC coordinates from Lightheaded database. However, by default, hard-coded coordinates should override database coordinates. In the future, we should hard-code NPC coordinates in order to make our addon self-reliant.

Additional Feature List:

  1. Auto-completion, checking the user's completed quests and auto-checking off steps accordingly. The ability to input multiple completed quest requirements and and/or logic might be nice. Example: A fly to the area step that completes when the player enters the area, OR if they have completed all the quests in that section. This is a lower priority feature of the auto-completion.
  2. Integration of the arrow (as a separate, toggle-able module), and preferably a version more like Cartographer's than TomTom's, which changes color based on distance rather than direction. Maintain the ability to use other addons if the user desires (such as TomTom, Cartographer, or Carbonite).
  3. Create a "plug and play" functionality for the addon, so that guide for tradeskills, talents, money making, and all sorts of other things can be added. Essentially we would like to use one interface to run all the modules, so it looks and feels the same. Additional windows etc might be needed for individual modules, however (the talent module comes to mind).
  4. Additional step tags, specifically a "use" tag for non-inventory items (world objects) which will recognize when the corresponding quest objective is complete.
  5. Customization of the window: ability to choose how many steps are shown and how much information for each step. Possible options:
    • Mouse-over (one liner with mouse-over like Tour Guide)
    • Short (mouse-over info displayed at all times
    • Detailed (more like Jame's paper guides, with lots of detailed information)
  6. Improved path / area coordinates. Some ideas:
    • Ability to list a "path" without having to clutter up the note with a ton of coordinates. Preferably, a way to list coordinates hidden from display.
    • Map markings, for point locations, paths, and areas. Quest-helper has areas, I'm not sure what it would take to do this but it's really nice looking and would be awesome for quests where you just need to kill everything in an area.
  7. Improved logic/display for multi-objective steps. Not exactly sure how this would work, but perhaps have "substeps" which are displayed together, and checked off as they are completed.
  8. For guide coders, I'd like to see a little more formatting ability for the mouse over notes. There were many times I'd wanted to add new lines to improve readability, and was unable to.

Guide File Updates:

  • Include quest tags for each step (not just quest steps) so they will be auto-completed properly (I understand this was already being done when the addon switch was initiated).
  • Our own coordinates for quest givers and turn ins. Lightheaded sometimes lists incorrect coordinates for some NPCs due to NPC movement. It would also just make it easier for users so they don't need multiple addons.

Possible Future Addons:

  • WoW-Pro Talents - Easy talent recommendations while leveling, for all specs. Possibly include rotation suggestions as well. For players jumping in partway through, it should be able to detect their current talent changes and adjust accordingly, or recommend a respec if the talents are too messed up. Talents should be prioritized to make sure people pick up the most vital ones. Recommendations of glyphs would also be nice.
  • WoW-Pro Gold Making - Daily quests, gathering/farming circuits, perhaps even auctioneer advice.
  • WoW-Pro Reputation - Reputation guides created using the addon.
  • WoW-Pro Holiday - Holiday guides created using the addon.
  • WoW-Pro Achievements - Other achievement guides.

Please give us your input! We want to make this addon the best it can be for you, our users. Please let us know what you'd like to see in the new addon!


Brune's picture

Yes, sure, Zygor is allowing

Yes, sure, Zygor is allowing his users to use Tourguide should they so wish, but that's simply a facade being put up.

Explain to me why exactly a guide author who already has a superior addon chooses to buy an inferior one. If you look at the facts, there really is only one conclusion jumping out.

Just wondering, how well do you know Tekkub through Wowwiki? Your opinion on this seems quite a bit beyond impartial.

As i've already said, it is

As i've already said, it is entirely possible they bought Tourguide to kill it, but Zygor has not, to my knowledge, done anything that would make me believe that they would, if they kill Tourguide there will an alternative by the time Cataclysm is out so I'm not worried to be honest.

Wow that URL surprised me, since im running it Laughing out loud

Anyways as you can see there is no direct line between me and tekkub. Please note that Tekkub is a WoWWiki admin, so me and him being on that image is hardly surprising. Surely being a regular on the WoWWiki IRC channel doesn't mean I know Tekkub in any respect.

But yes I am siding with Tekkub on this, because after all this is his addon and if he thought this was a good idea then good for him. Besides to me at least Tekkub is much more a brand than an actual person, I know if i download one of his addons it is simply and to the point. Look at the "biggest" addon he had was TourGuide, the rest of these are very simply and for the most part just does one thing. And using a brand for years undoubtly develops a certain loyalty to that brand much like most people wouldn't hessitate to buy a blizzard game because they know it will be good. But i would argue that im no worse than you, where as I'm with Tekkub you are with WoWPro. WoWPro now having to take down there leveling addon, gets you annoyed because it is at some point hurting WowPro that they now effectively are without a leveling guide addon. But i guess thats enough psychology for today Eye

Jiyambi's picture

Hah that image brought back

Hah that image brought back memories. I miss Kirkburn and the gang, I ought to drop in and bug them again Laughing out loud

However, as interesting as this conversation is becoming, it's hardly on topic and mostly erroneous anyway as, whatever motives Zygor or Tekkub have, we are planning to create our own addon before Cataclysm regardless.

Lets get out of this rut and discuss what we're doing with WoW-Pro's addon, not what Tekkub chose to do with his addon, shall we?

scoot2112's picture

I agree Jyi, what needs to

I agree Jyi, what needs to happen to progress the WoW-Pro community should be first.

Brune's picture

Personally that gives me a

Personally that gives me a lot of motivation to do what I can to help with the transition to our own addon.

Brune's picture

Sounds like he's making good

Sounds like he's making good press out of nothing there, there's no way you can mess with the files somebody already has on their computer.

And saying that we were "using the products of his hard work to begin with", all we were doing was using his free addon to do what his addon was meant to do- create free guides for other players.

Jiyambi's picture

Eh, all true. I still don't

Eh, all true. I still don't really blame him for trying to make some money with it, that's all.

Besides, now we can make an addon directly tailored to our needs, and never have to rely on an outside source again.

Brune's picture

Yes yes, stiff upper lip

Yes yes, stiff upper lip etc, but we did have the opportunity to do this in the past remember, and we chose to become whores of the evil consumerist Tekkub rather than using Jahwo's (perfectly servicable) addon.

Jiyambi's picture

I know, and I admit to being

I know, and I admit to being one of the ones who voted for hopping on board with Tour Guide, much to my embarrassment now. At the time it seemed like the most efficient way to get out guides out to people in a format they were familiar with. And, you have to admit, it worked! It sucks that we need to change gears now, but we did get a lot of guides out quickly using Tour Guide.

While Jahwo's addon was "perfectly serviceable", as you put it, I still feel as a user of the guides that Tour Guide worked much better with my UI, being very compact and screen estate saving, and for me that's very important.

That's not to say the addon Jahwo was working on was bad, and I still think we should use it to work off of. I just think it still could use improvements Smiling

Not the place for it, I know...

...but I wasn't sure where to put it and this seems to be a currently active topic. Eye

I'm not sure how much control you have over it, but it seems weird to me to see ads for a gold-selling service on your site. ( is one of the ads that commonly shows up) You know, addons are supposed to be free, buying/selling gold is against the ToS, all that stuff...

Just thought I'd mention it.

Gethe's picture

The addon is free but the

The addon is free but the site is not, hence the adds. The content of those adds are between the site owner(Jame) and the add provider. I don't know how much control he has over that content

Jiyambi's picture

I know this was a huge

I know this was a huge hurdle for WoWWiki back in the day when I was contributing actively there, Google would frequently put powerleveling and gold selling ads on their site despite their not wanting those ads. Still, thanks for letting us know, we can't try to get it fixed without knowing the problem is there!

Rilandune's picture

Addon communication between PC's

The guides here are invaluable and I use them every chance I can. My biggest suggestion from a usability standpoint would be the ability to sync status on quests in any way between different pc's. I play in two different locations often and when switching from one to another I have to go in and find the point I left off on the last pc in my guide. Having to go back and check off every step prior can be frustrating as it may be a few days to a few weeks between using one PC and another so it's a lot of checks to check in order for the guide to know that I've completed the earlier steps.

Thanks and keep up the great work, it is appreciated!

Night Elf Rogue
Emerald Dream

Jiyambi's picture

Technically this is already

Technically this is already possible, you should just be able to transfer the settings file (in the WTF folder) between PCs. Unless I'm missing something. Not the easiest solution but probably better for you than checking off each step.

However, the new addon should be designed to check off steps automatically based on what quests you have already completed and what are still to complete. So transferring PCs *should* be less painful.

Unless something on

Unless something on Blizzard's end changed, the reason Tekkub never implemented a similar system was that there was no way of querying the server for the quests a character has completed. His solution was that the addon would monitor that while it was enabled, and the user would have to check off steps that happened before Tour Guide was installed.

Gethe's picture

he was working on a version

he was working on a version with these features on his github account but never released it, this is the version i used as a base for the current WoW-Pro addon

Jiyambi's picture

Right, but this is no longer

Right, but this is no longer the case. Unless I'm mistaken, Blizzard recently (3.3?) made it possible to query the server to determine what quests have been completed. The probably got tired of people putting in tickets so they could get their dang chickens.

Souricette's picture


It would be nice to have the localized guides integrated in the unique addon, and if such guide is available in the user's "locale", to use the good one.

I also don't know if it's possible, but, for quests (accept/turn in/complete), using only the QID in the "guide" and extracting its name from the game when displaying it - it would ease many translating steps and handle quest name changes!

In the same idea (I don't know if it's possible), having a way to extract from the game itself the names of the NPCs, the objects, the zones, and having the addon replacing them dynamically would be fantastic (for example, meeting a tag like [%NPC=4424] would be replaced by "Aggem Thorncurse" if you are using the English version of the game and by "Aggem Malépine" if you are using the french one). It's more job for the guide writers, but it would really simplify the localization, and even let people using the english guides and having important things in their native languages.

That's all for now.

Gethe's picture

You can get info on any

You can get info on any item, quest, npc, etc. just by using the associated ID and the proper function, if you couldn't addons like AtlasLoot wouldn't exist.

Gethe's picture

Yes they have to be seen

Yes they have to be seen first but it doesn't have to be you. As long as at least one character on the realm has seen something, anyone else can just query the server to get the same info. Like I said before, if this wasn't possible AtlasLoot would not be anywhere near as popular or maybe even exist.

I use AL as an example because its the best way to see first hand that you can look at an item, and all of its associated stats etc., that you have never seen drop. I do this all the time looking at ICC bosses we have yet to attempt and making wish lists of gear I want

scoot2112's picture

Just some thoughts on this

That sounds good, but how would you plan on implementing those features?

For heirlooms you could track gear I guess, but if you don't have heirlooms and either grind or run dungeons you could have the same effect on quest leveling. So, I guess you would have to track XP, but how would you make the guide know to jump ahead (and over how many quests) to catch up with your level? Also people level at different rates. A Rogue or Druid may be able to stealth in and out of an area with minimum kills, while a Mage or a Hunter might need to clear the whole area to accomplish the same thing resulting in more XP for kills.

From what I've heard about Cataclysm, old world questing be will be redesigned to be more zone linear like Outland and Northrend. If that's true, you really wouldn't need this feature. If you get to a high enough level, just move to another zone and load the next guide.

I do like the idea of a WoW-Pro database, but have no idea how to start. I'm available to help in anyway I can.

Jiyambi's picture

Ideally there would be a way

Ideally there would be a way to group and link quests together to make the skipping feature possible. Sometimes not only are quests grouped by area, they are also in long quest chains between several areas. We can work on this, I do think this would be an awesome feature, but it seems quite complicated and should possibly be a secondary consideration.

scoot2112's picture

Count me in, I'm willing to

Count me in, I'm willing to help any way I can.

Odysyus's picture

Just my 2 cents

Im not sure that this is even the proper place for this since it not really productive but, with the possibility of the short and long term effects on this community I wanted to speak my mind.

If I understand the current policy in place regarding add-ons and their use and development in World of Warcraft, when Zygor removed the Tourguide add-on from the servers of and amongst others he has in fact violated the terms of use for any player using it in game. He gained sole legal rights to the add-on and it's future development the proper way, but by placing it on a private pay-for-use server and service he broke the very rules he was touting himself for following. He has taken a free add-on and embroiled it in a BS pay-for-play drama.

I'm sorry but doesn't all of that seem childish to anyone else? OK, for my part I'm angry, I loved this game, we've been through years of botched hot fixes, day long server outages because someone screwed up during maintenance and so on and on and on, but We are still here, we still play the game because we love it for all of its flaws, but this now is just showing the seething underbelly of what this game is becoming. I know many of you are looking forward to the expansion, I'm not. It feels very half-hearted, almost a bone thrown to quiet the barking masses until Starcraft2 goes live and they rake in another 15 million subscribers. Again, I'm sure this is most likely not the place for this, but it's feedback to the topic. With the addon version of the guides in jepoardy or at the very least a complete revamp that could take months to complete, even in a community so overjoyed to help out in any way they can such as this one, can this be a sign of the end of road for WoW? Companies like Zygor and other pay-for guides and addons are a symptom of the lazier than thou attitude that blizzard has adopted towards policing its own community.

All of the guides here and in a few other places are free, written by players (Jame and others) and edited by a community of dedicated players looking to keep the game fun for all to play, to take the drearyness out if the leveling process. It will be sad to say good bye one day, but the day I pay to take the boredom out of a game is the day I retire for good from the gaming community.

I would be happy to help in the process in anyway i can, I dont have any skills per-se in coding or UI but I do have plenty of time to put in getting the guides into whatever new format we are forced to move to.

To my knowledge TourGuide

To my knowledge TourGuide hasnt been released yet by Zygor, so i think it's a bit premature to call Zygor on it. Besides Blizzard has enough money to sue Zygor just for the hell of it. TourGuide simply is in an unreleased state currently. Bashing Tekkub or Zygor doesn't really help moving things forward. Energy should be focused on the new addon instead, i'm sure you agree Eye

Spitt's picture

re: Just my 2 cents

Yes, you are correct. Also, the full version of Zygor's addon is also behind a pay gateway. He is now doubly violating the TOS. You can get the "free version" from the free trial, but it's not the same addon as the full version... but you might be able to use it to distribute the guides you have for free anyways?

This anti-pay policy, started when at least Carbonite, was selling their full version of their addon, and had a free and paid version, with the paid version kind of encrypted. Really nice work they did to confuse people perusing the code, to make sure it was an authorized version.

By the way John Cook (Zygor), claimed Tourguide was still going to be allowed for use on free guides. He also made sure that no other paid guide was distributing their guides on Tourguide. I am guessing thats what this is really about.

However until there is a free viewer to use, I see that as being a load of crud.

Something you might be interested in... Carbonite has a superior mapping and waypoint system. If you can add a addon that interacts with it, instead of say tomtom or another arrow system, you will be that much greater ahead.

scoot2112's picture

Since Carbonite will emulate

Since Carbonite will emulate the TomTom or Cartographer arrow it isn't really necessary to interact with Carbonite directly. If you use either one (or both) then people that don't like Carbonite can use the guides also.

Jiyambi's picture

I recall someone posting on

I recall someone posting on here that Carbonite and Tour Guide played nice together already. I'm not sure at all since I really don't like Carbonite's map (yeah I know, most people do, I'm just weird), but I've heard it works fine as long as you don't have TomTom or something that conflicts with it installed. But again, just from what I hear, no first hand experience with it.

If what you say is true and Zygor doesn't ask us to take down the guide, well bully for us! However, we'll probably start working on our own addon anyway, just to avoid any confusion in the future.

I agree with you Odysyus.

I agree with you Odysyus. As I have said on the wowinterface forums, given the current drama BS Zygor is pulling, it would highly ironic if Blizzard choose to take legal action against him for violating their addon policy.

With regards to the topic of this thread, I have no coding skills, however I'm more then happy to play tester for the addon as I enjoy leveling up alts within the game.

Jiyambi's picture

This is what I thought the

This is what I thought the moment I saw all this, I thought they made it illegal to sell addons? I don't know much about the legal side of things though, all I know is that it's probably for the best anyway, we'll be able to make our own addon and never have to rely on other people for it's updates or support. And while it is gonna take some time, it honestly is the best time for it to happen, before Cataclysm and all the craziness accompanying it happens.

Ijovan's picture

Ss far as i know they

Ss far as i know they (meaning Blizz) didn't exactly make it illegal to make payed addons, but i think they explicitly stated that any code you write for their game is free for everybody else to use in other addons. Making paid addons obsolete because, well, you can just copy it because the author doesn't have the copyright to it.

Jame's picture

I will be 100% behind this

I will be 100% behind this project by the way, it's been a long time I've been thinking we should really make our own addon. I'm confident we can make something a lot better than the previous version.

Please leave your input guys and also mention if you're willing to help some way on this new addon project.

Jahwo's picture

Well, the guides as .lua

Well, the guides as .lua data are not supposed to be read without the addon, are they? Eye

Jahwo's picture

My old addon is actually

My old addon is actually still available from google-code for anyone wo is interested. But I fear that it won't work, as the last update was over a year ago Eye

Jiyambi's picture

I'm sure it will still be a

I'm sure it will still be a useful spring board for whatever we end up doing!

Jahwo's picture

In the repository I also

In the repository I also found the basis of a second version of that addon. I had some really interesting features in plan for it. One for example were "sub-steps", which means you have a top level objective, while doing other steps at the same time. I found this useful as Jame's guides aren't always linear and there are phrases like "From now an collect every XY while following the guide". But sadly the addon got abandoned before I really got to it Eye

Gethe's picture

I think we should make

I think we should make something similar to the TG recorder, which I used to make the horde Blade's Edge guide, as it will be a big help come Cata.

Also, I'm more experienced with UI work than coding so if someone has an idea thats more specific then Jiy's "small with a check box" send me a pm or post here. I don't think it should look very similar to TG.

I wish i still had that old addon >.<

Jiyambi's picture

Features discussion

I agree that we don't want it to look too similar to Tour Guide. However one beef I had with the old addon was that, if I recall correctly (which I may not), it seemed to be sort of bulky in screen estate. When I'm leveling I want to be able to see what to do at a glance but not have it interfere with my play. However you do it, I think that's a very important feature to maintain.

My ideal that I can think of atm: A combination of the arrow and the objective into one package. An arrow with one line of text below it, a place for an item button when necessary, and some way to right click it and select "skip" - the "checkbox" is not necessary at all.

I do like the mouseover for more details feature from Tour Guide, but perhaps we can even extend it to make it possible for the more details-oriented players to keep the details pain open at all times.

As far as the addon author - I put myself forward as a last resort. If Gethe or Jahwo or Ralpb (or whoever) have enough free time to develop the addon, they would almost certainly be better at it. While I tend to pick things up very quickly, I have no previous lua experience and they would almost certainly work faster and better than I Eye