Revized WoW-Pro Addon

Jiyambi's picture

WoW-Pro's team is working on our very own addon! Though the initial use will be primarily for leveling guides, the addon will eventually encompass many of the guides which appear on this site.

This does mean we are no longer supporting or updating the old, Tour Guide based guide. In addition, we will only be providing limited support for the old guide files, since most of them will become obsolete when Cataclysm is released (Outland and possibly Northrend being notable exceptions).


The Guide Window

More details about the new addon and awesome screenshots after the break.


Dropdown Menu


Options Page

What we need from the community: First of all, patience. We will do our best to come out with an up to date, new addon quickly, but it will take time.

Secondly, we need input! Please post here with suggestions for features you'd like to see in the new addon.

Thirdly, we need help! The addon is currently in a closed ALPHA stage. Most features work but there are known issues and very few guide files have been converted to the new format. If you are a regular member of WoW-Pro, have some coding experience, and want to help out with alpha testing, please send me a PM.

Once the rest of the basic features have been added, and more guide files have been converted, we will release the addon for an open beta test by all our WoW-Pro users. Our goal is to have a finished, polished addon ready for Cataclysm.

Current Addon Features:

  • Check-able list of steps with detailed descriptions listed below step titles
  • Manual completion enabled for all steps
  • Auto-completion enabled for Accept, Turn-In, and Complete type steps.
  • Coordinate mapping for single coordinates supported through TomTom
  • Sort-able guide list showing zone, author, level range, and amount completed. Now has scrollbar (woopsie!)
  • Guide window is resizeable and can show number of steps from 1-15.
  • Guide list now correctly displays progress for all completed steps, not just manually completed ones.
  • Current guide pane which allows you to scroll through the entire current guide, completed and non-completed steps.
  • Addon automatically queries the server when you log in and updates a database of completed quests, so no progress will be lost even after a client crash.
  • Sticky steps! Used for "do as you go" steps, they appear above the normal step and stay there until completed.
  • New: Auto-completion is now supported for flight, hearth, run, boat, and get flight path steps.

Known Issues (to be fixed)

  • Coordinate mapping only works within the guide's title zone. Multiple zone support to be added soon.
  • Guide window resizing is not smooth and looks rather odd. It can also be resized to too small for 1 step (which means no steps display) or too large for 15 steps (leaving blank space).
  • Auto-completion not yet supported for partial quest complete, set hearth, loot, and use steps.
  • Next guide does not yet automatically load when you finish a guide.

Future Features:

  1. Need to add support for listing certain steps as dependent on multiple quests being completed to be checked off (steps to go to a questing hub, for example)
  2. Use item buttons. We're going with a look similar to quest helper, though may provide a move-able button or a keybinding for the current step similar to that in Tour Guide.
  3. Animation for checking off steps (a check mark appears, old quest fades out, other quests move up).
  4. Either integration of the arrow, or permission from TomTom's author to redistribute their addon, maintaining the author's name and the addon's original name (basically leaving the addon untouched).
  5. Support for area vs. patrol vs. player run path type coordinates.
  6. Display customization (font, font size, colors, amount of info displayed - ability to use mouse-over tooltips instead of displaying the full step)
  7. Support for step skipping (not the same as manual completion) - the guide knows you did NOT complete the quest and will not ask you to complete quests with follow ups. Perhaps has a confirmation message stating "Skipping this step will result in skipping X follow-up steps". Need to add support for quest dependencies for this to work.
  8. Auto-load a guide based on level
  9. A separate "shopping list" frame which can be opened with a button on the title bar, used for a couple things in the leveling guide but which will get the most use for profession guides.
  10. Improved logic/display for multi-objective steps. Not exactly sure how this would work, but perhaps have "substeps" which are displayed together, and checked off as they are completed.
  11. For guide coders, I'd like to see a little more formatting ability for the mouse over notes. There were many times I'd wanted to add new lines to improve readability, and was unable to.
  12. An optional target button, which allows you to target a named mob and places a raid icon above it's head. This will help locate wandering mobs. Ex: |T|Bjomolf| would find the wolf Bjomolf if he is in range, target him, and place a skull above his head so he can be easily located.
  13. Ability for the guide to double as a quest tracker (showing the current quest's completion status) as an option. Example: "Mobs slain: X / Y" would display underneath the |N| text display.

Guide File Updates:
Guide files will be needing some significant updates. You can help us out with these even if you aren't currently working on the addon.

  • Include quest tags for each step (not just quest steps) so they will be auto-completed properly (I understand this was already being done when the addon switch was initiated).
  • Our own coordinates for quest givers and turn ins.
  • Coordinates are no longer listed in the |N| section (that's just for descriptions of the step now). Instead they are listed in the |M| tag like so:

    A Your Place In The World|QID|4641|N|From the NPC in front of you.|M|43.3,68.6|

Possible Future Addons:

  • WoW-Pro Talents - Easy talent recommendations while leveling, for all specs. Possibly include rotation suggestions as well. For players jumping in partway through, it should be able to detect their current talent changes and adjust accordingly, or recommend a respec if the talents are too messed up. Talents should be prioritized to make sure people pick up the most vital ones. Recommendations of glyphs would also be nice.
  • WoW-Pro Dungeons - Guides to dungeons. Easy access while leveling, recommended dungeons for your level and gear. Include gear lists, etc. Step by step guides, preferably with pictures, includes boss kill strategies.
  • WoW-Pro Gold Making - Daily quests, gathering/farming circuits, perhaps even auctioneer advice.
  • WoW-Pro Reputation - Reputation guides created using the addon.
  • WoW-Pro Holiday - Holiday guides created using the addon.
  • WoW-Pro Achievements - Other achievement guides.

Please give us your input! We want to make this addon the best it can be for you, our users. Please let us know what you'd like to see in the new addon!

Comments

Jiyambi's picture

Yeah, a little star next to

Yeah, a little star next to quest chain quests might be a good addition.

abrown516's picture

Leveling with Heirlooms

I think that there's should be a leveling guide that adjusts to the bonus experience given by heirlooms. This will help people who plan to level alts, but can't use the current leveling guide because the experience slackens by up to 25%. I know I definitely would support this, and appreciate it.

Progressive, agressive.
Jæger and Jæger. For the Azerothians.

Jiyambi's picture

I don't think we'll have a

I don't think we'll have a special guide for heirloom users, but the auto-adjusting feature we are hoping to add should help you skip ahead once you get ahead in level. It will just be easier for us to make this feature robust enough to cover everything (instance leveling, recruit a friend bonuses, heirlooms, and granted levels). Though, if this turns out to be unsatisfactory for a number of people, it's possible we will add something else in the future.

In my opinion...

This community is incredible, if you haven't already heard that. I don't post very often but I have always been grateful for the information I find on this site. I have the Pally Tank 96969 guide bookmarked so I can re-read it as I teach myself how to do something besides dps... I also think I would have lost interest in this game long ago without your amazing leveling guide. It has enabled me to progress efficiently in a game that is very time-intensive, while not having very much time to give. I have been using it since the times of printing it out on reams of paper, before it became an in-game addon Smiling

On that note, I just wanted to mention some of my recent experiences leveling my Paladin Alt. My reasoning for leveling this alt is to have a tanking toon. With the new(ish) BOA experience boosting gear, and the totally awesome Dungeon Group system, it is perfectly reasonable to simply level 1 to 80 almost exclusivly running instances. I personally can't do that, and I need to mix in questing along with the instances. Plus running the instances with a tanking toon is a little easier with the insta-que, and I can practice the art of tanking before I get to end-game content.

All that to mention this. One thing I find I am doing quite frequently is skipping several portions of the leveling guide. Which often brings issues of jumping to an area of the guide that happens to be in the middle of a long chain (Linkadin's sword, for example) I have absolutely no clue when it comes to coding, so I have no clue of what to even suggest to solve this (minor) problem. I just wanted to bring it up to the bright minds in this wonderful community.

Also, I think someone mentioned it in one of the comments but with all the wonderful information on this site about leveling specs and such, it would be a shame not to tap into that information to help guide the leveling nubs out there as to how to spend talent points through the leveling process. As a side note, I know it goes against everything this site preaches about leveling... but with the ability to dual spec and use the dungeon system to augment leveling, perhaps healing and tanking specs could even be included?

As always, keep up the great work! I can't imagine I have much to offer in a way to help, but I can give it a try if you need!

Jiyambi's picture

I added the spec suggestion

I added the spec suggestion guide to the list. I tried to be detailed in my vision of the talent helper, but please let me know if you have other/different ideas.

Also now my vision is two addons, perhaps accompanied by more in the future.

WoW-Pro Addon Suite:

  • WoW-Pro Leveling
  • WoW-Pro Talents

Exciting!

Edit: Oooo, possibly to be accompanied in the future by "WoW-Pro Gold Making"? Could include daily circuits, farming areas, and auction advice. And "WoW-Pro Reputation", an addon form for reputation guides which includes a grinding calculator? *squeee* I'm excited!

Jame's picture

Holy crap, that sounds great

Holy crap, that sounds great Eye

Jiyambi's picture

Good stuff here, thanks for

Good stuff here, thanks for posting. I'd been meaning to add the spec suggestion to the list of features people have asked for, but I'd forgotten. Thanks for the reminder!

As for dynamically finding your place in the guide, that's something we are hoping to add as a feature as well Smiling

Jame's picture

Don't worry, we aren't

Don't worry, we aren't forgetting other languages and are trying to find a way to make our new addon easier to localize.

ps: Ne t'inquiète pas, on oublie pas les autres langues, surtout pas le français vu que souricette travaille très dur sur les traductions de nos guides depuis des années. Par contre, nous acceptons volontier l'aide des joueurs francophones pour ces traductions. On est bien d'accord que l'anglais n'est pas la seule langue au monde, mais il faut mettre la main à la pâte si on veut être sur que d'autres langues soient disponibles. Eye

Jame's picture

It's really great to see

It's really great to see many people responding to this project, offering insight and help.

I'm confident we're gonna do something great here Eye

We're still discussing how to organize and structure this project, but we should be set and ready to start before the end of the week (actually, someone already started to code the addon!).

So stay tuned and please keep giving your opinion on what you think should be and should not be included in the wow-pro leveling addon.

My thoughts

Quote:
Similar format to Tour Guide so people don't get too confused - this means a check off system with a one liner discussing what to do and an arrow. Most importantly I liked that Tour Guide didn't take up much screen estate, very important for addon enthusiasts such as myself - I like to have the most efficient UI I can manage.

I agree using LibDataBroker people can decide how they want the addon displayed, Tourguide has this aswell. Currently i use Carousel to display Tourguide instead of Tourguide own status box.

Quote:
Integration of the arrow, and preferably a version more like Cartographer's than TomTom's, which changes color based on distance rather than direction.

I'm an extreme minimalists, so i would suggest this was done in a seperate addon so for people like me who like TomTom we dont have to have 2 arrows installed.

Quote:
Our own coordinates for quest givers and turn ins. Lightheaded sometimes lists incorrect coordinates for some NPCs due to NPC movement. It would also just make it easier for users so they don't need multiple addons.

TourGuide also has this, but it would be nice to be entirely independant og LightHeaded. Be careful about the latter part of that statement, as in my opinion you should do 1 thing and do it well, instead of everything and do it badly. The arrow for example should be optional, as that is not really needed. This is a simple checklist i would use if i were to design the addon:
  • Is it needed for basic functionality? Yes: Add it.
  • No 3rd party addon exist: Add support for this addon.
    3rd party doesn't exist/unhappy with it: Create an optional module (seperate addon).

It's just a rough list, and nothing is really as black and white as that. But in an nutshell: Don't force me to use something i do not want, but offer it as an optional module for those that do want it. Now this can lead to users having a hard time finding, or even know thay exist, the modules. So you could release the addon as a Suite much like Auctioneer does. Auctioneer works fine on it's own but it is so much better when you have Informant installed aswell. I hope you understand what I'm getting add.

On an added note since 3.3 you can query the server for the quest you have already completed, it would be nice if the addon would then be able to auto select which part of the guide to start from based on that, i suspect this could get rather complicated with questlines and such. An alternative would be to simply tick the quest that are completed and let the user decide based on that. As this is a one time affair this is also a good example of an external addon functioning as a module for the addon.

Jiyambi's picture

Awesome awesome advice,

Awesome awesome advice, thanks so much for the detailed post!

In terms of providing an arrow, I think it's still an important thing to do. I would look for something like how Questhelper does this - it has an arrow it uses but you can tell it not to. My Questhelper automatically used my Cartographer arrow when I had it installed, instead of it's basic arrow. I really like this feature and this it's a good compromise. I don't know anything about coding yet so I'm not sure how to accomplish this, but I'm pretty sure it can be done!

As for your last note - definitely, the minimal functionality we want is for it to automatically check off any completed quests when you open a guide. It may be that we will add a more complex, recommended starting point feature in the future.

Thanks again Smiling

Jiyambi's picture

Alright, I updated the main

Alright, I updated the main body of the post here with the core features and a prioritized list for advanced features. Let me know if anything is unclear or if you need more details. Or if you have more ideas! Laughing out loud

Jiyambi's picture

Will do, tonight, after

Will do, tonight, after work. Expect an updated page around 9:30 PST tonight.

scoot2112's picture

Thoughts and comparisons

I've done some comparisons of three add-ons for in-game leveling guides and thought I would post what I think about them.

Zygor's Add-on (Free Trial):
I already had a level 1 toon (Orc, Warrior) on which I had completed only the very first quest [Your Place in the World].
The window looks pretty snazzy but, is kind of large. You can hide the border and adjust scale for the window, primary text and the secondary text (this can also be hidden and seen on mouse-over) which helps a little. It can be hidden in combat.
The integrated arrow is okay. The arrow and attached text are scalable but, don't hide in combat. It does support TomTom and Cartographer2 arrows but, not Carbonite (even with the emulator).
There is a feature that will skip quests that are too low a level, so you can run dungeons, grind or use heirlooms and not worry about doing quests below you. This feature is adjustable from 0-80 levels below you.
This guide will also auto-accept and turn-in your quests if you want it to.
It will not automatically catch you up if you start a guide in the middle. It checks off quests as completed but, you have to manually find your place. The quests are colored green when complete, so it's not that hard (just a pain).
The .lua code is very neat and easy to follow. There are a couple of things that I don't understand what they do but, they should be easy enough to figure out.

Overall, I like this guide, but I am not willing to pay $50 for it.
One other thing, it came with another add-on called Talent Advisor. This add-on gives you advice on how to spend your Talent Points for optimal leveling. This could be something WoW-Pro might want to think about in the future.

Jahwo's Add-on:
This add-on was written by WoW-Pro's own Jahow and is similar to Zygor's guide. The biggest problem with it is, understandably, there has been no development since WoW-Pro decided to use TourGuide as the base for it's guide add-on. That being said, I think it would be a good place to start building a new product, with a few improvements and updates.
The window is kind of large and is not very scalable but, you can adjust the transparency (the setting doesn't save though). It can't be set up to hide in combat. I would also like to see a mini-map button.
There is a small integrated arrow, attached to the window, that can be turned off so you can use the one in your HUD. When turned on, the HUD arrow works with Carbonite (and i assume TomTom since I had the emulator turned on) but, could use attached text.
There are issues with it finding the correct zone. I loaded the Dragonblight guide while I was in The Storm Peaks and had to reload my UI after I flew to Dragonblight (the arrow was still pointing to The Storm Peaks) to make it work in zone.
It will not automatically catch you up if you start a guide in the middle or even check off completed quests.
It does not auto-select by faction, race or level.
The .lua code seems hard to read and edit.

I know I seem critical of this add-on but, keep in mind that I understand it is basically an abandoned project brought back to life in a frankensteinian condition because of need. These comments should be seen as things I would like to see included in any add-on that WoW-Pro produces. Like I said above, a very good place to start.

TourGuide:
Most people here are already very familiar with this add-on, so I'll keep it short.
This window is very minimalist (I have mine in Titan Panel) with mouse-over tips.
It does require other add-ons (Lightheaded and TomTom or Carbonite's arrow emulator) to function properly. This dependency sometimes leads to incorrect routing information.
The .lua code is is easy to follow and edit.

Of the three, this is my favorite but, the dependency on other add-ons could be a problem in the future. These features should probably be integrated into one main add-on.

Anyway, that's my input. Part review, part features I'd like to see.

Jiyambi's picture

Hmmm, it would be epic to be

Hmmm, it would be epic to be able to use the guide we've already written Smiling

I very much like the idea of being able to choose to see multiple steps at once. The amount of information for each step should also be toggle-able, as a user below requested, if at all possible. That way the addon makes screen estate crazies like myself happy while also providing more easily viewed info for those who want it.

Looking forward to see what you've put together, Ralpb. We may still develop something else, or use what you've got as a spring board, but we'll have to see.

What I missed in TourGuide

What I missed in TourGuide was the ability to see the comments without mousing over the step. The tiny [?] indicator wasn't easy enough to spot whether there were additional comments or not. So at least some option to see comment text at a glance would be nice. If it's not complicated, maybe show max 3 lines of text on the screen and full text tooltip or something. It wouldn't in my opinion clutter the screen that much if the background was transparent and you could configure the size of the tour box.

I personally don't like the idea of "integrating" (not the right word I know:P) the addon to some bulky addon such as Carbonite (I hate every addon that sends me messages via addon channel regardless of whether I have the addon or not), or at the very least it should work without it and have support to something more simple like TomTom as well. Lightheaded is admittedly a good tool in not having to type every coordinate there is, but I still think there should be some sort of fix for the wrong coordinates/waypoint arrows because of multiple locations of one NPC. The ability to override Lightheaded coordinates in these scenarios for example. But in some way I feel even Lightheaded is too much for just getting TomTom to point where I need to go, cause I don't use any other features of Lightheaded. All in all I think people should be able to know where to go and what to do with just the WoW-Pro addon and the default UI.

About the whole TourGuide issue: I can't see any licensing or disclaimers in my TourGuide's code / readme file, so can they really claim that no one can distribute or modify the already released free version of the addon? Or do you need to spesifically state that the addon is free for distributing and editing before anyone is allowed to do so? I haven't got a clue about the whole copyright&addons stuff. Of course it's better to develop something no one else can do anything about though.

Blizzard states:
1) Add-ons must be free of charge.
All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create "premium" versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on.

Now, I was wondering if there's a loophole that if they're not infact selling "services related to the addon" but selling a service that comes with an addon, it's ok? If the customer is paying for the guide, they can sell the addon as well since the customer is purchasing the guide, not the addon itself.

Jiyambi's picture

I'm going to make a list at

I'm going to make a list at the top of this guide with the suggestions we've had so far, because again I'm hearing that people want a variable way to display the information for each step. Some want a small mouse over display, some want the comments to automatically be shown, and some want a larger, detailed display such as with Jahwo's addon. I think we can make all of this work.

Just so you know, by "integration" I think the plan is to make the addon play nice with carbonite, tomtom, and whatever else the user might be using, but still make it stand alone. An example I used in a previous post is Questhelper - it comes with it's own arrow but automatically used Cartographer's arrow when I had it installed. I'm hoping we can do something similar.

Just like you said, having our addon work perfectly by itself is important, and we want new users to be able to figure things out quickly and hassle-free.

Jiyambi's picture

I'm not sure what you are

I'm not sure what you are asking here. The new addon we are creating might somewhat resemble Tour Guide in that it has roughly the same purpose, but will be entirely written by WoW-Pro authors.

The old addon, which as far as I know is still available, is completely based on Tour Guide but, since it's modified and improved for our use by Gethe, does not require you to have the separate Tour Guide addon on your computer.

Jiyambi's picture

All addons should work on

All addons should work on both PCs and Macs. The download page should help you with the instructions for installing the addon on a Mac.

Jiyambi's picture

As far as I know, as long as

As far as I know, as long as no one has yelled at Jame to take them down, the old addon will remain available here. So download it now if you need it. It will never hurt you to try to download it - the worst you will find is that the link was taken down.

Jiyambi's picture

Worst case goal: by the time

Worst case goal: by the time Cataclysm is released.

However it will probably be ready sooner, other than that we have no clue yet as we haven't even put together an official team to work on it yet.

So long and thanks for all the fish

Bye bye tour-guide =(

Well, I might be able to help a bit for the new addon version (on the one hand i study informatics, on the other hand between Studying / WoW / Dota / Chess / RL activities my free time is pretty short =( )

btw. can anyone tell me whether there is a faster /played at lvl 80 then this ( http://s7b.directupload.net/file/d/2077/fku8klmu_jpg.htm )? (BOA hammers / chest / shoulders, 2k cash from main, no rested exp (pretty much played this over a weeks timespan, go ahead call me a nerd, I don't mind), no recruit a friend bonus, didn't receive help from outsiders)?

OMG

You achieved that with Jame's leveling guide mate? Eye

yeah, I use your levelling

yeah, I use your levelling guide (it's great! Especially on twinks i don't play too much, it's very nice to know where I stopped last time =) ) as a baseline every time; just skipping a bit (BOA exp), and picking up a different quest / leaving out a bit here and there.

E.g. i skip most escort quests (the npcs are walking too slow Sad ), or I don't go looking for steelsnap. If I run into him, I kill him. If I don't see him while doing the other quests, that's ok, too. Or I pick up Broken Alliances (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=782) and threat it like the steelsnap quest Smiling
Oh, and sometimes I change the route a bit, depending on where I finish a kill / collect coyote teeth - Quest.

Well, I'm probably speeding up thing by less then 5% though, so nothing serious =)

scoot2112's picture

Holy F%#@!!!! I've never

Holy F%#@!!!!

I've never seen faster. Good job!!!!!

Jame's picture

That's impressive, did you

That's impressive, did you achieve that using our leveling addon? Smiling

scoot2112's picture

Jahow's Guide

Is Jahow's guide writing guide still available? I know when I first came to WoW-Pro that was the guide I found and Jiyambi directed me to the TourGuide page. Can anyone make that guide usable now, so new people can see where he was and try to improve on it?

Jiyambi's picture

Scroll down Jahwo posted a

Scroll down Eye Jahwo posted a link to his guide below.

scoot2112's picture

I've got the download. I was

I've got the download. I was wondering if the guide on how to write stuff for his guide is still here. Also I've been trying to use the download in-game but I can't make it work. Can anyone help? I just want to see what it looked like.

Jahwo's picture

Err there probably is no

Err there probably is no easy way to make it work right now, but here is how it looked like: Click!
It was/is sizable in the vertical and displayed plain text with color and small icons in it for each step.

edit: Oh and the "How to Contribute" guide still exists, but is not visible anymore, sorry Sticking out tongue

Gethe's picture

Actually, the only thing

Actually, the only thing thats broken from what i've seen is the pointer when figuring out what direction the player is facing. This is easily fixed using the GetPlayerFacing() function added in 3.1. Open WoWproArrow.lua and replace line 37 with:

	local pdir = GetPlayerFacing()

Jahwo's picture

Nice, I thought it would be

Nice, I thought it would be more Smiling

Are you sure you should go

Are you sure you should go with this straight away?
Selling addons is against Blizzard's policy, so I don't see them get away with this.

Jiyambi's picture

I mostly wanted to get some

I mostly wanted to get some ideas out for a new addon if we were to make one. Regardless of what happens with this situation, I think working on our own addon is probably a good idea, so nothing like this happens in the future. But keeping the Tour Guide version available until the new addon is complete would be the ideal situation, in my opinion.

Lycander's picture

Count me in

I'm not sure how much help I can be, but I'll do what I can. This will mostly be testing the guides and the like, as I'm no programmer. However, I do know a pretty decent one who's done some addon work and will see if I can get him involved in it.

Brune's picture

Well I have no real

Well I have no real experience with complex coding, however if there's labour intensive grunt work to be done, I'd be happy to help out.

This Tekkub business leaves a pretty bad taste in the mouth, especially as I'm sure Tekkub knows, he's selling out to a company which provides inferior paid guides to what this site does free.

Jiyambi's picture

I honestly don't really

I honestly don't really blame Tekkub for trying to make some money from his hard work. It sounds like he was concerned for his users as well, making sure that the current versions they had on their computers would be protected. It makes problems for us, but really, we were using the product of his hard work for free to begin with. I'm not saying he's a fine example of human generosity - I'm just saying I see where he's coming from.

Brune's picture

Tekkub: Taken in?

And in terms of "I understand why he's doing it": I don't recall Tourguide carrying a disclaimer saying "Oh btw I'm going to let you guys use this guide, but really I just want to make it popular so that eventually I can fulfill my original plan of selling my addon".

I wonder if Tekkub may gain less from this than he hopes- As Tekkub admits, Zygor's guides already have their own custom made addon.

It seems that Tekkub has fallen victim to his own vanity, in that he's being told his amateur addon his better than the custom-made one Zygor already has and the wafting allure of contracted work on the addon for him.

Call me a cynic (many do), but I find it no coincidence that Zygor chooses to purchase an addon (which by all accounts he doesn't really need), which also happens to pull the feet out from under the site providing the most popular and by all accounts the best free levelling addon on the internet.

Tekkub is one of the best

Tekkub is one of the best AddOn programmers out there, just because something is paid for in no way means it is inferior in any respect. And the fact Zygor bought TourGuide to replace their own addon should give you a small hint that TourGuide is awesome. I don't really think you are a cynic, just ill informed.

Brune's picture

There is no doubt that

There is no doubt that Tekkub is a prolific and talented addon writer, however if you have a look on Zygor's website at the addon he already has, it seems to provide a whole lot more than Tourguide does.

"the fact Zygor bought TourGuide to replace their own addon" doesn't seem to indicate how great Tourguide is, as zygor's current addon does much more. Since you have someone making paid guides who competes with free guides buying out what appears to be and inferior addon that's used by the free guides, something smells just a tad fishy, doesn't it?

And I'm note sure quite what you mean by "just because something is paied for doesn't mean it's inferior in any respect". Isn't that obvious? Sticking out tongue

I took a look at the

I took a look at the comparison on Zygor's page, and i could only find 2 features that Zygor's current addon and TourGuide doesn't have.

  1. Dynamically Adjusts If You Level Too Fast
  2. Directional Arrow In All Game Zones
I think it is important to remember that Zygor has a different target audience than WoW-Pro. Zygor is for the newbie that wants to be carried all the way to 80, where as WoW-Pro is more for the experienced player that want's to level in the shortest amount of time possible. That means that the first feature probably isn't so interesting to WoW-Pro, as you really are meant to start from step/level one (with exceptions at level 30, 60 and 70). This is not to say WoW-Pro can't be used by a newbie, but i still feel there is a difference in the target audience for both addons.

Since Zygor is for the newbie player it is very likely the player doesnt know that much about addons and which is why he has an all-in-one addon. I believe that pretty much anyone in this community has some knowledge of addons and knows where to get them. This i presume is also one of the reason why TourGuide doesn't have an arrow built in but rather just has support for an external addon that provides this feature, if you download Tourguide it is also likely you know about TomTom.

What I'm trying to say here is not to try and compete with Zygor and basicly "rip off" his ideas for his addon, but do whatever makes sense for the WowPro addon and the community.

Now as for Zygor simply buying out TourGuide, it is possible, but they have said the following:

Quote:
Now, regarding the addon community and the continued support of TourGuide. We have no intentions of removing free guides from the market with this aquisition. In fact, the results of this merge will prove to be just the opposite, as TourGuide has now recieved corporate sponsorship and will be maintained with the full power of Zygor Guides backing it up. This means that TourGuide will remain free for public download and will, most likely, be improved with the quality you have come to expect from Zygor products.

And since Zygor hasn't really done anything to make me not believe them, i dont think they bought out TourGuide. We will see what the future holds however.

As for the last bit, i'm afraid i pressed submit a tiny bit too fast there. What i meant was "just because something is free, doesn't mean it's inferior", the arrow missing from TourGuide is by design, a deliberate decision, because TomTom is already out there and it's a very good addon.

Jiyambi's picture

All true. However it's

All true. However it's rather ridiculous to think that trying to make the addon self-contained (having it's own arrow and coordinates) is "ripping off" Zygor. Seriously, about half the questions I have answered about the addon are from people who fail at reading instructions and ended up not downloading the extra bits. Consequently, I've been wishing for something like this for a long time. Trust me, this happens A LOT, and the addon WILL be much better if it has it's own arrow. I still think, as I've stated many times, that support for external arrows from TomTom, Carbonite, etc is important. But making our addon stand-alone is really vital, in my opinion, to it's development.

I also said it could be

I also said it could be released as a Suite, just like Auctioneer or even better examples Pitbull and Quartz. One of the biggest problems i found with Fubar back in the day when i used it was that it came with no modules whatsoever and finding just the basic modules was a pain. By all means release the addon by having a "WoWPro" and a "WoWPro_Arrow" in the same Zip file, that shouldn't pose a problem for any one, and if you dont want the arrow you can simply delete the "WoWPro_Arrow" folder. At the end of the day this is just a technical issue, for normal users would be completely transparent. The only thing i have said, allow us a choice for the parts of the addon that can be solved by a third party and ideally let us remove the bits from the addon we dont want. But again please note this entirely is a technical issue, it is not to stop you from making your own arrow, your own quest database etc etc, it is just a suggestion to design the addon technically to let us pick and choose the things we want in the addon.

Let me give you an example:
The zip file you download has the following folders in it:

  • WoWPro
  • WoWPro_Arrow
  • WoWPro_Alliance
  • WoWPro_Horde
  • WoWPro_QuestDB
  • WoWPro_Talents
  • WoWPro_Inscription
  • WoWPro_Auction
  • WoWPro_Dailies
  • ...
Your normal user would then, as he normaly does installing addons. Extract these in to his addons folder and he will now have everything. Your advanced user however would be able to say, "Hey i can figure out my own talents so im not gonna use WoWPro_Talents and so im gonna delete it", or "I already have TomTom so i dont need WoWPro_Arrow". So again this is purely a technical issue, it is not to stop you from having an all in one Suite of addons, it is to appeal us who loved Tourguide for what it was, because it didnt try to do everything.

Anyways, having a self contained addon is not ripping off Zygor, thats not what i meant. All im saying is just don't look at what Zygor is doing to find out what you are gonna do. Perhaps instead of making it a guide addon for quests, it would be agnostic, simply not care about what guide you feed it it just shows you the guide. This way you can have Inscription leveling guides. Exploration achievement guide etc etc. Do something that haven't been done before.

Jiyambi's picture

I see what you mean by the

I see what you mean by the suite now (which I was planning for the talent portion anyways), that makes sense. For some reason I just couldn't get what you were saying about the arrow through my head. Oh wells, I get it now Laughing out loud

As for doing something that hasn't been done before - that's all well and good, IF it doesn't sacrifice the usefulness of the result. I also don't think it's bad to look at what's currently out there for inspiration.

That said, I do like the idea of the guides being modular yet of the same framework. So as you said, the inscription guide displays the same as the leveling guide. Obviously some might need additional display interfaces (the talent guide comes to mind, I think it would need a little different set up), but it was always a goal in my mind to at least make them look like a cohesive group of addons.

Note - do keep in mind that the "agnostic" example you used is pretty much what Tour Guide already was. Just sayin' Eye

At least we are on tha same

At least we are on tha same page now Smiling

Quote:
Note - do keep in mind that the "agnostic" example you used is pretty much what Tour Guide already was. Just sayin' Eye

But isn't it limited to quests more or less? TourGuide didn't really care if the it was fed a Holiday quest guide or leveling guide, but I don't think you can make a profession leveling guide? I guess this again is just all technical again Sticking out tongue

Jiyambi's picture

Yeah the auto completes are

Yeah the auto completes are limited to quests, true. But as it is you could easily make a profession guide with Tour Guide as long as the user doesn't mind clicking off steps manually. Still, an auto-complete feature for those things would be nice Smiling

Gethe's picture

to add some fuel to the

to add some fuel to the fire, tekkeb had pulled TG from his github account only a few days after i had released the 3.3 WoW-Pro update. Not sure if that had anything to do with it but it does go with the Zygor conspiracy your building.

Brune's picture

(No subject)

<3 conspiracy theories.

Jiyambi's picture

After checking out Zygor's

After checking out Zygor's site once all this hubbub started, I can't help but agree. His addon was much spiffier looking than Tekkub's and seemed to do a bit more for him. I can't help but assume that Zygor is buying Tour Guide simply to keep it off the market.

Quote: Zygor is offering TG

Quote:
Zygor is offering TG up to his users legitimately, and we may work out a deal for me to work on TG while under contract if there is a positive response from his userbase.

-Tekkub


I doubt Zygor actually bought it to kill it, granted it's possible i just find it doubtful.